Interview #2

IPR: This is Ivonne Paredes I’m an undergraduate research student at the University of Utah

And this is interview number two for oral history project. Okay, question number—starting with question number one. When did you arrive in the United states?

I: May 16, 2000.

IPR: How old were you?

I: I was two.

IPR: Two. And do you remember um... Any of the—like the journey here?

I: Getting here?

IPR: Yes.

I: Not really, my mom would only tell me little parts of it, like when we were on the plane and

once we got here the people that would help us to get here and that’s about it.

IPR: So.. how—Just going back from the way like your mom memories do you know the process of how you came to utah?

I: She—I swear she told me a couple of times, but I honestly can’t remember [because] it just doesn’t really stick. Whenever she would tell me it didn’t—no memories came up they were more like—it was more like if she told me a story. So it didn’t really felt really when she was telling me.

IPR: So umm what was, then, what was your first memory being in Utah? Or your first impression?

I: The first memory I have from here is just.. starting like school.. Like Preschool and everything. I think just because we have the videotapes, my parents would love to videotape everything. So, they would always show us the ones I was in school so those are the only memories I could even think of and have stuck in my head.

IPR: And is there a particular episode during those first years that sticks out to you?

I: Not really, I just rem—The one I remember clearly is knowing who santa was [because] for us we don’t know who santa is for us it’s like different from our religion and everything so I remember sitting on santa’s lap and other than that not really. My parents would always tell me that I would struggle though with my english and spanish that I would always come home crying [because] no one understood me but other than that I don’t really remember that... part in the first years.

IPR: Umm, do you, again, just based off of memory have yours parents told you anything about what life was like back home?

I: Not really they would—back home as in here? Or...

IPR: Back home as in like Mexico.

I: Oh, not really they would just tell me that I would always be at my grandma’s house and that I would always be like there and there with grandma and grandpa or people and that’s pretty much about it.

IPR: And—what was—do you remember, umm, anything in particular for like umm—school. What was school like growing up for you?

I: It was a bit complicated I would say. Once I started kindergarten I remember like getting lost is in the bus just because my english still wasn't like complete then and I got lost and I got on the wrong bus because they switched the number signs and so I went to the one I was normally used to and I couldn’t get home because I couldn’t communicate with the bus driver and then they took me back to school and my parents were there and it was all good, but other than that I was a lot in the ESL classes and so that’s pretty much how my whole education was. Like I would be in class in half the time half the time in esl and that was all through high school making sure I was keeping up with my english and stuff like that. Towards first grade I didn’t—I wanna say I didn’t have much problem with my english it was a lot better but I would say it was mostly kindergarten and preschool around there where it was like more difficult.

IPR: And you mention going to ESL or being in ESL. How did that—what was that environment like?

I: In the beginning through like elementary it was really nice because there were kids that were just like me who didn’t understand english and they would just help us so I thought it would be really fun, but yet towards middle school and high school I would get kind of annoyed of it just [because] they would take me out mostly out of my fun classes. So, that’s one thing I didn’t like about it and i was like well I'm taking this test over and over again every year like I guess it was just the frustration that got to me and but I don't know why elementary was like so much fun but then towards middle school it was like such a frustration to me.

IPR: And you mentioned a test. What kind of test was it?

I: It was mostly like they would read—you they would have you read certain paragraphs and then tell half the person I was reading to like explain to them what I read about and they would just [ask] me questions kind of just like any english class and they would also point out a picture and I would have to say if it was a picture of a bird then I would say bird. Then I would—it would also be like word pictures like the word bird, so I would have to say the word bird and they would also tell me how many syllables does this this have? Pretty much a second English class it was pretty much like.

IPR: Okay, and that went all throughout high school?

I: Yes.

IPR: So looking back at those first—primary years who would you say you are now? Or how does that differ from where you are today?

I: I am for sure not so—super confident with my English, but I wouldn’t say I am confident with my Spanish either. I feel like throughout that year I kind of lagged some spanish and so my english and spanish is kind of like in the middle in both of them, but I would say I am a lot more confident if I need like help someone translate or something or help someone out who doesn’t know what’s—how to speak english because back then it was really—I would say more difficult. It was like a really long process, but knowing that I got a lot better and everything. It makes me pretty proud of who I am now because I can do a lot more stuff.

IPR: And just backtracking a little bit. Upon initial arrival did your—or how did you come to- to Utah?

I: I don’t remember how we got here, but I just remember we lived in this one little apartment with my uncle while we found a house to rent. And, after that we found a house and we moved to Provo because I believe it was in the Orem-Provo border and—so we stayed with an uncle. Then after that we just moved to Provo to our own place and that’s pretty much...that I remember.

IPR: Would you say then that you had, or that your family had, a good support system upon arrival? (Yeah) Or at least upon the first years?

I: Yeah, I had—I wanna say two uncles—that were living here at that time and yeah they came out here and… my dad actually came out here first before all of us [because] he wanted to see that it was good and check out [because] he came out here for work first or he still lacked a job. And he really liked it and he stayed here for a year and then he told us that if we wanted to we could come down and so my mom wanted to and then we came down. So, besides having my uncles my dad was here first so that was a good—umm comfort place to mostly come since it was my dad.

IPR: And where you an only child at the time?

I: Umm—yes and no. I was the only child, but my mom was pregnant of my brother so she would tell me how difficult it was just because—I don’t know how long she was—but she was due in a few months, or something, with my brother.

IPR: And—or has she shared any stories about how—in what ways would you say—or if she has shared any—how was it difficult?

I: She would say [because] since it was just me and her and, umm, like getting on the plane and getting rides or stuff like that was pretty difficult because it was just like two—two girls and since she was pregnant she couldn’t really walk as much. So, we would always have to be—she said we would always had to be taking breaks and she said we had a couple of friends that—well like I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this, but like crossing the border she said that we had a couple of guy friends that we met on the way and they would help us out and—to get here and I would ask her like oh did those guys like pass by with us too? And she said they didn’t make it because they caught them and I wanna say it was like once we were going towards like Texas or something like that because she said a whole bunch of cities that we would stop by but it was a state that we would be getting closer to here. And she said that yeah they didn’t pass by from of how much they were like helping her from her pregnancy and helping me because I was young and little.

IPR: So you physically crossed through the journey, walked here? (Yeah) and umm you were young, you mentioned you were young, so it’s a bit fuzzy (Yeah) umm do you or like umm have any like recalls or feelings as to what that felt like?

I: Not really, I—no matter how many times I try to like remember it I just—I really can’t capture none of that. Like, I love hearing stories about other people when they’re crossing or something maybe hoping that maybe I’ll try to remember. Like a feeling or something, but it doesn’t really click at all. Like it’s like as if it were a different whole new chapter of me if I had just woke up one day and I was two-years-old, three-years-old or something I really can’t remember none of that.

IPR: And—or how does the fact of not remembering does that affect you in any way?

I: At times it kind of does [because] I wish I could know how it felt to get over here [because] the only thing I could—the only memory that sticks to my head is my mom keep telling me that I was on the plane and saying goodbye to, like, to my people [because] I guess it was during—I honestly don’t know where it was it was probably in Mexico—and she said I was saying bye to my grandma and that’s kind of—I kind of—throughout the years I kind of—That little memory kind of clicks, but after that it doesn’t. I thought that it would be cool to like remember getting here and like saying that I crossed it and everything, but I just—for me it just doesn’t feel nothing. I just...for me it just feels like I got here on a plane and all that.

IPR: So, what is life like now then?

I: Well, we’re here and I believe we’ll be here… it’s twenty years? We’ve been here about twenty years or so and now I’m a—I’m a college student and I’m also working and now we have my brother and then we have another little one too.

IPR: And what do you think has changed aside—we talked a little bit about, you know, language barrier and everything, but what else would you say, or if any comments from your family, what has changed since your initial arrival to now? Personality wise, identity wise? Who would you say you are as a person now?

I: Back then I would say I was more like of a shy hidden person and I mean don’t get me wrong I’m still pretty shy, but I don’t… i’m more like pretty open and I like to, like, communicate with others and I guess I was just more shy back then [because] of my—the English barrier. And now it’s just... I don’t feel the need to be, like, hidden and be shy about it, like, I’m pretty open and like to talk about—to anyone with like in English or in Spanish or like helping them out.

IPR: And would you say—what would you say your support system looks like now? Years later?

I: Now, I have a lot of friends that sup—that are, I would say, are my support system as well as, like, my parents. Umm, like my uncles that were here they’re no longer here anymore, but I have a big support system still with my parents and—yeah my parents in general I would say.

IPR: And you mentioned you were a college student, what is that like?

I: It’s pretty stressful obviously because it’s college, but umm... I would say every once in a while it’s just a bit umm difficult just [because] every time I’m paying tuition or something I look at, like, every individual thing that they like—that’s like listed of your tuition and everything and a lot of it is like obviously like a non-resident and I would just say, like, it’s really hard to find scholarships since I’m a DACA student it's still even harder cuz there’s a lot of DACA students out there. Don’t get me wrong, I’m like really—I appreciate, appreciate, that I’m a DACA student and I have the opportunity to, like, keep going with my studies and everything, but I guess it’s just still a little bit hard knowing that I just have to pay so much amount of tuition just because I was brought here without me even wanting to or something like that, you know? If that makes sense? (Yeah) So, I guess tuition is just a lot, like, it really, like, brings—it really gets to me and it, like, it hurts me bad like because I honestly can’t remember anything about getting here and everything so I’m, like, I don’t know why they should be raising the tuition super high if we’re just here like anybody else.

IPR: So you mentioned DACA umm so let’s talk a little bit about that. How did the 2012 DACA announcement affect you?

I: It.. at that time I honestly had no clue what it was about just [because] I’m not the type of person that really looks at—into news and everything and my parents also haven’t like… they try to have me not really look at it just because I’m the type of person that—it’ll affect me in a way. Like, I just think about it way too much and it’ll like—I’ll overthink it and everything. So, I try not to be, like, so focused into it, but once they told me they told me they wanted me to do it and, like, all this stuff and then once I figured what it was about I was like oh yeah I’m gonna try it out so I can, like, keep going and they don’t have to kick me out of nowhere just [because] I’m not from here. So, I thought that would be a great opportunity and ever since it’s been pretty good I would say.

IPR: What would you say, umm, or what would you say life was like pre-DACA and post-DACA?

I: Post-DACA I would say… post is like not DACA, right? (chuckles) (Yeah, so post… ) Okay, I was like wait… (chuckles)

IPR: So—or—(Before?) Yeah, before—like, what was life like before having DACA and after having DACA?

I: So, like for sure before it was like… I wouldn’t really think about it. All in my mind would be whenever the whole, like, thing of, like, immigration coming around, like, that thing, like would really scare me because I would—wouldn’t have—DACA wasn’t around so any time knowing that we could just be gone any moment would kind of like affect me and kind of like scare me. And being—and then after DACA it doesn’t really affect me as much as before just [because] I know if they kick me then—they can’t just because I have that permit to be here I guess, but it still kind of, like, scares me just a little bit [because] knowing that i’ll still be here with my brothers, but knowing that my parents aren’t here like I don’t—like that still kind of scares me. I don’t know what I would do without them. Like, I—I look up to them a lot because they’ve been, about twenty years without seeing their parents, so i don’t think I could go through with that like they did. So, being DACA now it’s like I don’t have that fear of leaving, but I do have the fear of, like, losing my parents from one day to the next.

IPR: And… the feelings of insecurity would you say, or actually, let’s backtrack a little bit. Umm, so what was it like? That process of obtaining DACA? Could you describe what that felt like? Relief…? Etcetera.

I: In the beginning, it was… I honestly felt pretty cool because I was leaving school early for that, but once I would get to the place because there were a couple of, like, places that we would have to go to and right when we were, like, about to get there would that’s when I would get, like, my nervous and I would get so scared. My palms would, like, get super sweaty because I would be so nervous. I would say especially—the most—especially why I was, like, super scared was because I saw a ton of police officers and, like, the ICE people and I was like well if I do—if they don’t approve me they might take me and like all that. Like—I like really overthink stuff which is really bad, but yeah I would remember I would always be so scared and there were some places that my parents were be able to come with me with and there were some that they wouldn’t. And, so the ones that they were with me I felt more safe because they were my parents obviously and I felt more safer with them, but the ones that we would have to get, like, a friend or another family member that was from here it was a bit, like, still scary just [because] I don’t have full confidence on them. Like, if they—someone comes up and they like tell them that could take—that they’re allowed to take me or something, like, I feel like they would just take me or something. And, so I would always be so scared and even to this day every time I, like, renew it I somehow still get scared. Like, I know the process and everything already, but it still kind of, like, scares me and like they could literally just take me for renewing or something. I don’t know, but it was pretty scary I would say.

IPR: And, would you—would you say DACA increased your—the way you looked at yourself as a person living in this country?

I: It for sure did [because] back then I felt like I wouldn’t be able to do anything or even get a job or anything just [because] we’re not from here and I saw the struggle with my parents,like, trying to get a job that doesn’t, like, require a ton of citizen papers or whatever. And so being able to, like, just show them the DACA it’s like, oh you're able to work, you’re able to go to school. Because just seeing how my parents go through like—it was kind of tough for them and so I would say I hope I don’t have to go through that [because] then I don’t know what I would do. I would probably just, like, give up and, like, let’s move or something, but it has helped me a lot to see who I am now and, like, be able to do what I want to do and everything.

IPR: And… alright let’s—what are you’re—have you ever considered—or what are your thoughts on returning to the homeland?

I: I for sure do not, what do you wanna call it, like to live? I mean if i had no choice and I would go for it. I would—Like, at this point I would say I wouldn’t—if they told me we had to leave tomorrow, like, I would be fine; okay with it, but my thoughts on returning I wouldn’t want to, like, return back and, like, live. I would like to go in like more of a vacation just [because] I’m used to being here, like, in the states, in Utah, it’s where I grew up and where I, like, know and then just.. I feel like going to—back home it’s a lot like a new place like I don’t know any—I know people which is my family, but I wouldn’t—I—I guess it would be a lot of getting used to it because it’s a whole different place and what I’m known to.

IPR: So have you ever actually considered returning permanently at all?

I: Not—Not really. My parents one day they say that they want to and (clears throat) and they do say that, like, in case if anything happens with the president and everything and if we have no choice, but to go back then we’ll have to go back and I guess to that point I guess I would have to just, like, take it and like then it would be permanently, but other than that they would love to go back permanently, but I don’t think I would.

IPR: And, you mentioned the current administration. Umm, there was a point where they said, “Oh we’re going to stop the Deferred Action Program” did you...how did that affect you?

I: Well, I know they’ve been trying to say that—they’ve been saying that, like, many times and like how I said I don’t really try to focus too much on what they’re saying [because] I know they are going back and forth, but every time I do hear it just [because] of like friends coming and talking to me and saying they’re going to take it away and stuff like that. It does kind of affect me, like, it gets to me because it brings me back, like, childhood memories of, like, when I wasn’t and so it’s like if they take it out then I have that fear again of like any moment or any time they could just grab me and be like okay you're gone, you know, because you’re not from here. So, that fear would come back to me again.

IPR: And would you, or, do you have—you mentioned you still have family back home correct?

I: Yeah.

IPR: Do you keep in touch with them?

I: Every once in awhile I kind of don’t… it sounds really rude, but I kind of try not to just [because] pretty—so pretty much my whole mom’s side of my family is over there and half of my dad’s. So, pretty much my whole family is over there and just knowing that I can’t like—I could just talk to them and, like, facetime them and everything, like, it’s good and everything, but I feel like it’s not the same [because] I’ve never like met them personally. Like, not that I remember, but (clears throat) yeah like I try not to just [because] they like—it—it just gets to me, like, knowing that there’s family that’s getting married, that they’re having their, you know like, I don’t know all their special events and just knowing that I can’t be there it, like, it really just gets to me and I try to, like,(clears throat) not really… like I’ll have communicate with them every once in awhile, but not, like, on a daily basis talking to my cousins and talking to my grandma and all that. It’s just more of, like, a daily—not a daily thing, it's more of a every once in a while just [because]—I guess it just gets to me a lot and then like I get really sad about it knowing that I can’t be there and stuff like that.

IPR: So would you say… or umm, would you say, maybe, it may be different if, you know, you had the ability to travel. Would you say that communication would strengthen? Or...?

I: Yeah, I would say it would a lot just [because] I obviously wouldn’t be going back every, like, two weeks or something. I would go probably every, like, year or so or whenever, like, something special would be happening. I think that would strengthen a lot. I do know [because]—since my brothers are obviously from here, they… one of my brothers has been able to go and visit and once he came back he had like, he still has a lot of good connections with, like, my family members over there and just knowing that he has good connections with them and I don’t, like, it just—it’s kind of sad, but I feel like it would definitely.

IPR: And do you still keep in contact with your uncles from here?

I: A couple. Umm, I just have one uncles that lives here and we have no contact with him or at least I try not to have contact with him and—but the uncle that was here, one of them, he moved to California and we still have contact with him. We go and visit him and my family in California every once… once a year we try to, but the other one he got deported so we—I honestly have no clue about him and I try to talk to my parents about him and see, lik, how he’s doing and everything. And, they give me a, like, small brief summary about him just [because] I guess they don’t really want or they probably don’t even know anything about him. I don’t know, but they give me a small little summary about how he’s doing and stuff like that.

IPR: And, umm did you—do you remember how you felt when you found out that he had been returned?

I: Yeah, it was really sad [because] at that time I felt like I actually had, like, some type of family because it was like I remember every sunday we would all go to church together and he had two little kids, two cousins that we would always go over and, like, play and, like, all this stuff. And, we would always have, like, Christmas together, holidays together, like, dinners together we would do a lot of things together and then he got—we—we found out that he got deported and then we were trying to contact my aunt at that time because they’re divorced. She...she was really sweet and everything, so she would always try to, like, keep us in mind to, like, see what’s going on with—[because] he would be put into jail and that’s then that’s when we would tire to figure out things, but then it was like, I guess we couldn’t really do anything, so they had to take him. I don’t really know that process of what happened, but umm yeah he’s been gone for a while now and I don’t know anything about my cousins now [because] my aunt somehow got a switch on her head that she doesn’t want to talk to us or anything. So, I don’t know nothing about her or my cousins and I barely know about my uncle now.

IPR: So just taking all that into consideration, umm what does the possibility or the probability of returning mean to you?

I: It—it does make me happy I won’t lie, but I think I’ll also be kind of sad [because] I’ll be leaving everything that I built and everything here, but it would be nice to, like, go back and, like, (clears throat) and visit, like, new family members that—not new, but like family members that i’ve never met before. And, before my grandpa passed away he built a house for us and he put it under my name [because] I was the first granddaughter, so I would love to see the house that he built especially made for us and, like, the house that he made for me that he always said. So, I wou—so just having that feeling makes me happy, but then again it gets kind of sad because I would have to leave everything that I started from scratch over here.

IPR: Do you see or can you see yourself living in the homeland?

I: Not really. I could honestly just see myself, like, traveling, but not living for sure.

IPR: Do you see your future in Utah?

I: Pretty much.

(Pause)

IPR: Arlight.

(Pause)

IPR: So, what would you say Utah means to you?

I: For me, Utah I would say is where I would call home for me now.

IPR: And what about, umm, Mexico? What does that mean to you?

I: That would be—I would… I honestly never thought about that. Umm, Utah is more home and Mexico is more like, I would say like birth home? Just [because], obviously, I was born over there and all my other family is over there. So, the best word I could describe it is more like birth home… or second home (Birthplace?) Mmhmm.

IPR: And, would you say, or (pause) do you think you would be able to na—or how comfortable would you feel navigating the system, or like the social structure over there, versus you being able to navigate it over here?

I: I’m pretty sure I would feel a lot more comfortable here than over there just [because] I feel like I would have to start all over over there and I mean who knows. Every time I think about it I get kind of scared, because what if I start kind of like what happened over here, but over there. Just [because] I’m like from over here, so I feel like the story would kind of switch in a way. I think that’s like wow I’m not as comfortable if it’s switched over there.

IPR: So, if the roles reversed?

I: Mmhmm.

IPR: So, how would you say you identify then, just given all that?

I: Well, I honestly just feel, like, I’m just like anybody else here, but I mean I don’t wanna say I’m not like them over there because by blood I am, but I don’t know, I just feel, like, I’m here and I like somehow—I came here for a reason so I, like, somehow belong here.

IPR: Could you elaborate a little bit more on those feelings?

I: It’s really hard.

IPR: No, that’s fine.

I: I’m, like, I don’t know how to explain it (chuckles).

IPR: Okay, so just thinking back to the person or to the person you were upon arrival or upon those initial years to the person you are now, like, college student. What would you... What would you say to yourself back then?

I: Now? (mhmm) I would be like, for sure, like always like whenever I’m going through something really hard or something that—to keep on trying and going for it just [because] it’s not gonna last forever and at that time I obviously thought I would never learn English and I thought I would just… I wanna say, like, bullied the rest of my life or something because I was a bit bullied from that. But umm, yeah like it would—it will all come to an end and everything would be better just in life in general.

IPR: And, you mentioned being picked on, where you picked on because of the language or the language barrier? Or do you mind elaborating a little bit on that?

I: In like younger—when I was, like, younger I was because of the language barrier, but after that it was more of like my physical appearance because around that time I was, like, already… my English was a lot better than, like, before. So, I would say it was mostly like around, it probably stopped around second grade [because] I like—like if you ask me what was my favorite year I would say second grade [because] that’s when it all stopped and I had, like, a great teacher that helped me through it. So, after that it was around third grade again that it started, but it wasn’t from the language barrier.

IPR: And comparing your support system, or, you know, resources, in—or pre-college and now in college is there much of a difference would you say?

I: Not really, I still have the same support system that I did back—pre-college and now. It hasn’t really changed.

IPR: What about within the school itself?

I: I would say it’s… the school has a good, like, umm support system I would say for like having students feel welcome no matter, like, the race you’re in. So, I would say it’s pretty good.

IPR: And pre-college? Like Elementary school, high school, high school?

I: Yeah they—they were pretty good too. Umm, I didn’t—I never really have a problem about—about them not accepting people that aren’t from here or race and all that. So, I would say it’s pretty good.

IPR: What would you say has changed the most about, just looking back at your journey from the two-year-old with the flashbacks to the pre-schooler to college student?

I: What has... sorry what was the question again?

IPR: Yeah, what has just changed? Or like you know…

I: Umm, I would say not much has changed, like, my support system being, like, my parents have always been there. They’re, like, great just being there for me. I would just say like... like more family and, like, friends that’s what come and go. LIke, for those that were, like, there for me and, like, those that weren’t. Like, I would say I had a lot more younger just because I guess when you’re younger you have, like, a different whole mindset and then once you grow you get older you just, like, see a lot more things with, like, your eyes wide open a lot more, so you really know who’s really there to support you with your decisions and everything unlike when you were younger. So, I wouldn’t say much has changed it’s just life in general you see a lot more different things.

IPR: And, do you… (pause) Okay, so what would you—or what are your dreams, hopes, plans for the future would you say?

I: So, I for sure wanna finish college. Umm, so I wanna finish college and then hopefully get, like, a house for my parents and just help them out a lot I would say.

IPR: What are you studying in college?

I: So, right now I’m getting my associates in dance and then I wanna get my bachelors either in, like, the college of social work I’m still, like, deciding on that and then I wanna put those together and go to grad school for dance movement therapist—therapy—to become a dance movement therapist.

IPR: Nice! And where do you see yourself in ten years, twenty years?

I: Hopefully, I will have finished school by then (chuckles) umm, but—so I wanna hopefully—[because] dance movement therapist are really, like, known especially in the state of Utah. I would really like to, like, have the word out and just do, like, great things with it as well as I’m also a licensed cosmetologist so I would love to have my own salon in my own house and of course with like, maybe, hopefully, a family, and still helping out my parents. Hopefully just, like, financially stable like everyone else, out of debt from, like, school and everything.

IPR: Do you see yourself staying in Utah?

I: I wanna say yes. Umm, I love Utah. I love the mountains and everything. I would love to, like, experience somewhere else living, but I feel like I’ll still come back to Utah, so pretty much yeah.

IPR: Do you have any finally words? Thoughts? Questions?

I: No.

IPR: Okay, thank you for your time.